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Author Topic: <<spoiler>> Orlando Salido vs. Juan Manuel Lopez II Saturday March 10  (Read 1039 times)
PHONETOOL
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« on: March 10, 2012, 04:41:12 AM »



The Broadcast Will Begin at 7 P.M. PT / 10 P.M. ET on Showtime East

Orlando Salido vs. Juan Manuel Lopez

featherweights


There’s only one road to redemption for Juan Manuel Lopez–and that road takes him to Orlando Salido, the man who stopped Lopez and took his WBO featherweight title eleven months ago in the middle of a partisan pro-Lopez crowd in Puerto Rico.

One gets the feeling that Lopez’s people would’ve preferred another route to redemption. Salido isn’t a big-ticket draw and, frankly, is a legitimate bad-ass and the type of well-seasoned truth-detecting fighter who can dissect pretenders and those who haven’t taken their training seriously.

Unfortunately for Lopez (31-1, 28 KOs) though, the featherweight division isn’t what it used to be.

Yuriorkis Gamboa has gone up in weight, Indonesia’s Chris John has decided to stay at home and fight second-tier challengers, and the rest of the players at 126 rank significantly below the mark Lopez had left before being shocked by Salido.

So, after some stalling and some exploring of other avenues, Lopez is back to Salido and Salido (37-11-2, 25 KOs), whose only chance at a real payday is against Lopez, has also come around to a Lopez rematch after some initial balking.

One learning experience and eleven months later, and the questions around Lopez still remain.

The charismatic Puerto Rican was an amateur star brought along carefully and treated like the potential gold mine that he was. Lopez would develop into a fan-friendly fighter, solid in a lot of areas, but spectacular in none. His saving grace was always a thudding left hand and a monstrous right coming from the southpaw stance.

Then, things started falling apart. As is the case with many 20-something stars making big money and living a big lifestyle, Lopez succumbed to the night life. Training was becoming gradually less intense and a crew of hangers-on and professional partiers started occupying much of his time.

Some fighters can go for years before the night life begins to eat away at the professional product. In Lopez’s case, the results were almost immediate.

The biggest warning flag came against Rogers Mtagwa in 2009 when Lopez completely ran out of gas late in the fight and was almost stopped by the journeyman from Tanzania. Many would suggest that the completely one-sided twelfth round was only allowed to continue because Lopez was playing to a packed Puerto Rican crowd at Madison Square Garden and because his promoter, Top Rank, was positioning him to be the heir apparent to Miguel Cotto on the Boricua boxing throne.

In subsequent fights, Lopez began to look flat and sluggish. He was dropped by fringe contender, Bernabe Concepcion, in the first round before stopping the Filipino in the second. Then, he would go on to have a tougher time than expected against faded Mexican star, Rafael Marquez, before a shoulder injury forced Marquez to retire between rounds eight and nine.

After the Marquez fight, Lopez walked into his next title defense primed for an upset–and Orlando Salido happily obliged.

Salido, from Ciudad Obregon, Sonora, Mexico, is the very definition of “old school.” Never an amateur star or blue chip prospect, “Siri” was just another pug on the Mexican club scene, paying his dues and learning along the way.

Losses on the road to more experienced club fighters built character and defeats at the hands of Juan Manuel Marquez, Alejandro Gonzalez, and Cristobal Cruz built class. Along the way, though, Salido had his share of victories as well–beating Rogers Mtagwa, Cesar Soto, Cristobal Cruz in a rematch for the IBF featherweight title, and Robert Guerrero (in a bout that was later declared a no contest after Salido tested positive for the anabolic steroid, Nandrolone).

By the time he lost to Cuba’s Yuriorkis Gamboa via unanimous decision in 2010 and relinquished his IBF strap, the one-time car thief and street thug had already made a name for himself as a blue-collar, no-nonsense battler who knew every trick in the book.

When Salido walked into the Coliseo Ruben Rodriguez in Bayamon, Puerto Rico to challenge for Lopez’s WBO 126 lb title, he was treated as a mere speed bump to glory by most in the media, but those “in the know” considered him a very live underdog–and Salido responded accordingly.

After four fairly even rounds, Salido proceeded to disassemble a Lopez who had no back-up plan and began to fade fast when his Mexican rival put on the heat.

Following a knockdown at the end of the fifth, Salido took his time with the buzzed champion. He walked Lopez down and threw copious amounts of right hands–like any old pro would do against a southpaw–eventually forcing Puerto Rican referee, Roberto Ramirez Jr., to stop the fight in the eighth.

Since the upset, Salido has made one defense of the title, stopping hapless challenger, Japan’s Kenichi Yamaguchi in the eleventh round and then surviving two hard knockdowns before stopping Filipino, Weng Haya, in the eighth round of a ten-round non-title contest. In both of those bouts, Salido looked startlingly unspectacular, almost looking the role of a journeyman play-acting as champion. But, of course, Salido has the reputation of fighting up to (or down to) the level of his opposition.

Lopez, since his TKO 8 loss, stopped journeyman, Mike Oliver, in the second round of a scheduled twelve-round bout in the same ring where he dropped the title to Salido. Lopez looked strong and, by all accounts, didn’t struggle to make the featherweight limit. But not much was learned from beating the overmatched Oliver, who was, literally, wobbled by every punch Lopez landed.

This Saturday, Salido goes back to Puerto Rico to face Lopez. Things have changed, but not really.

Of course, Salido is now the defending WBO champ and Lopez is the challenger.

Also, referee, Roberto Ramirez Sr., is taking the place of his son, Robert Jr., and instead of fighting at the Coliseo Ruben Rodriguez in Bayamon, they’ll be fighting in San Juan at the Coliseo Roberto Clemente.

But Lopez is still the heavy-handed star with a variable work ethic. Salido is still the old-school, blue-collar fighter who learned his boxing lessons the hard way.

Lopez has the spark of greatness when he is 100% right and focused, but the great intangible in this rematch is whether that spark will still be there when the action gets hot and heavy. On the other side of the ring, Salido is Salido and will be the same fighter no matter what.

Lopez’s success completely depends on whether his humbling lesson last April has matured him as a man and as a fighter. Lopez, the man, should be able to handle Salido. Lopez, the tabloid star, will be soundly defeated again. Article courtesy of Paul Magno & The Boxing Tribune.



The Undercard

"Mikey" Garcia vs.Bernabe Concepcion

featherweights






« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 07:44:03 AM by PHONETOOL » Logged


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« on: March 10, 2012, 04:41:12 AM »

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WelshDevilRob
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« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2012, 05:17:13 AM »

Fascinating rematch!

I've struggled to pick a winner as there are a few uncertainties. How will the 1st fight affect JM Lopez - he may never be the same fighter again. Sailido, didn't look to good last time out and was floored a couple of times, maybe he took the opponent lightly or he is on the way down.

I'm going for a Lopez Ko around the 7th but more in hope than anything else. Regardless of who wins, I'm expecting an exciting, tense bout.
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« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2012, 05:17:13 AM »

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« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2012, 11:20:32 AM »

Great fight and great timing of the stoppage by the ref. Lopez' head looked a bobble head doll. Lopez made absolutely no adjustments from the first fight, had horrendous defense and an inability to make on the fly adjustments. A bit of lateral movement and a more consistent jab would have served Lopez well.

Salido is the real deal and Gamboas win over him looks damn good in hindsight.

Mikey Garcia won on the undercard and he really appears to be damn good. I want to see Garcia vs Salido or Gamboa.
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« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2012, 11:20:32 AM »

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« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2012, 01:05:29 PM »

I think Lopez is done .. he seems to get rocked with every solid punch he is hit with nowadays. I know Salido is tough as nails but he is by no means a murderous puncher. JuanMa's legs just dont seem to have any life left in them at all..he lunges and pushes his punches instead of really throwing them with good technique. He reminds me of Fernando Vargas when Vargas's skills and cordination left him at such an early age.
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« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2012, 01:43:30 PM »

I think Lopez is done .. he seems to get rocked with every solid punch he is hit with nowadays. I know Salido is tough as nails but he is by no means a murderous puncher. JuanMa's legs just dont seem to have any life left in them at all..he lunges and pushes his punches instead of really throwing them with good technique. He reminds me of Fernando Vargas when Vargas's skills and cordination left him at such an early age.


*hahaha...talk about jumping to conclusions... Lopez isn't done, he just got beat..AGAIN. I will say that his power is becoming suspect with solid div fighters & fighters that r big for the div... against small foe, he looks like a world beater. Litterally the same thing happened with mtagwa and Rogers isn't nearly the fighter Salido is.
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« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2012, 02:19:28 PM »

I don't think Lopez is done, but his major flaws have definitely been exposed. The guy needs to work on some defense, seriously, and he doesn't fight well going backwards at all. When he's getting backed up, his punches don't seem to have the deterrent power to discourage someone from coming forward.

They were talking about a rematch, but is that even necessary? Salido beat him twice now and in his own back yard. Let Lopez fight some journeymen first so he can get back into the game and regain some confidence and maybe he can earn a rematch. Just because the fight was exciting doesn't mean that it wasn't another clear and decisive victory for Salido.

I wonder if Top Rank was greasing the palms of the judges so they could get a trilogy and really make some bank...
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« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2012, 02:35:09 PM »

I don't think Lopez is done, but his major flaws have definitely been exposed. The guy needs to work on some defense, seriously, and he doesn't fight well going backwards at all. When he's getting backed up, his punches don't seem to have the deterrent power to discourage someone from coming forward.

They were talking about a rematch, but is that even necessary? Salido beat him twice now and in his own back yard. Let Lopez fight some journeymen first so he can get back into the game and regain some confidence and maybe he can earn a rematch. Just because the fight was exciting doesn't mean that it wasn't another clear and decisive victory for Salido.

I wonder if Top Rank was greasing the palms of the judges so they could get a trilogy and really make some bank...
He has always had sloppy footwork, so he has to plant his feet and square up to put some mustard on his shots. That comes from bad tecnique.

About Top Rank and home-cooking....from what I've heard (still have to watch the fight in HD) Lopez didn't win more than 2 maybe 3 rounds in everyone's scorecards. So the judges decision to have him ahead at the time of the stoppage may look absurd.

I'll be able to describe better when I'll see it. Which means, in a matter of hours (luckily)
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« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2012, 05:03:07 PM »

I think he's done at 126. His body looked dead. He has a reputation of being a Party Boy. It may have caught up to him. He should make the move to 130 or 135 and rebuild with some Gimme fights. He's gotta get better defensively. He needs to take the rest of the year off.
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« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2012, 05:35:28 PM »

DAMN! What a fight! I don't know if it will be FOTY because it was pretty much one-sided, regardless of the crooked scorecards.

Now I have to give props to:
- Orlando Salido. He's my hero tonight. He spoiled TWO TIMES Bob Arum's plans, fought in the lion's den TWO TIMES, and KO'd a previously unbeaten fighter two times IN A ROW. DAMN!
- Orlando Salido again. Because he proved to be more than a mid-range hooker-slugger. He switched southpaw when needed, even for just few exchanges, he perfected his left hook and introduced the two uppercuts to his game. That proves TO EVERYBODY that BOXING is a matter of skills and mind more than pure sheer aggression. As Juanma guarded against his right over-hand/straight right, Salido flipped the script. Smart, stuff of a champion.
- Jim Gray: he always says his thing. He's what Larry Merchan never was and never be. Classy yet tells it like it is. Amazing how he stood up vs Juanma's childish accusation and behaviour. He did what he was supposed to do questioning the Mares-Agbeko I referee (Russell), he tried to get the truth out of Pete Rose when Pete could've closed the debate.

Jim Gray is a maligned interviewer-personality on the web (at least that's how I see it). To me, he's the gold standard for the kind of stuff he does. Bravo to him for having the courage and the class to tell the truth without arrogance or the need to engage in a shouting match.

Lopez is done because he has never mastered the inside boxing/fighting nor the outside boxing. He's an incomplete fighter no matter how you look at it. He uses his legs too much or doesn't use'em at all. There's no in between. Either he's on his bicycle or he's standing right in front of you.

The referee, knockout aside, which was legit and a great call itself, was pretty bad. You can't ignore the holding and pushing from Lopez each and every time he got in trouble. you simply don't. The elbow in the 4th round, I believe, was also borderline criminal. There's a difference in roughing it up a-la Mayweather or Hopkins and deliberately fouling your opponent without even caring to hide it. Shame on Juanma, shame on the referee.

In this fight some other points are evident, IMO:
1) It doesn't matter how you want to "look" as an outside boxer, but real outside boxer use the jab a lot better. Lopez didn't really know how to use it, didn't put power when needed, didn't use it as a range finder nor as a way to open up combinations. It was more a pawning jab that didn't discourage Salido at all from coming at Juanma.

2) Defense goes as far as your reflexes and skillset go => Juanma, IMO, doesn't have enough reflexes to see certain kinds of punches. He's shot because yo-yoing from 160 to 128, whatever the weight it was, and back several times, kills your reflexes first and then the ability to take a punch. IMO, it's too late to learn defense. He simply can't see certain punches anymore. THIS version of Juanma would've lost to that Mtagwa (and he almost did). Juanma will keep on feating on smaller opponents who don't have first-class chin. His time in the upper-echelon of this sport is done. No way he would've won even a single round vs Gamboa. NO WAY in hell.

3) As Paul said, "as long as the promoters will pay the judges (literally), there will always be some kind of favouritism." True and sad at the same time.

Goodnight everybody. I might add: this fight is the reason why I love boxing. This has restored my faith for now.
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« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2012, 07:09:59 PM »

I agree with whoever said that Juanma is shot.  He is.  His knees literally buckled everytime he got caught clean and flush.  His punch resistance was bad to begin with and it is much more now.

Gamboa would obliterate Juanma and I think Mikey Garcia stops him late as well.
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« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2012, 06:45:51 AM »

Thank you Smooth...my eyes see the exact same thingand  like i said before..DONE!!!!
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« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2012, 01:45:22 PM »

i tell you. no one has brought this point up...
i put alot of the blame on lopez's people in his corner.
IMO juanma didn;t have to fix too many things to beat salido.
but last week according to a dude who has friends in juanmas camp. he surrounds himself with a bunch of yes people who he rules over. and even got rid of sparring partners that hurt him. he don't listen to no one.
and he payed for it. samr mistakes over and over.
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« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2012, 07:23:29 PM »

i tell you. no one has brought this point up...
i put alot of the blame on lopez's people in his corner.
IMO juanma didn;t have to fix too many things to beat salido.
but last week according to a dude who has friends in juanmas camp. he surrounds himself with a bunch of yes people who he rules over. and even got rid of sparring partners that hurt him. he don't listen to no one.
and he payed for it. samr mistakes over and over.

*man..i don't know Juan-ma... but he looks like an a**hole... hell, he called the ref a drunken gambler... the same ref who probably saved his life had Salido been left to continue to kick his ass.LASTLY, Juanma didn't have to change many things... he REALLY needed to not fight him again. Juanma got been twice..no excuses..he lost to a better fighter.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 07:34:37 PM by bigstinkybug » Logged
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